Fuck It's Silent in Here 2016

[Oleg]

I used to consider myself a fiscal conservative, social liberal and now I support Sanders, which means I'm nothing like the man I used to be when I left Buttpuddle for bluer pastures. I mostly support him because he's not Hillary or Biden though. I think he would at least ATTEMPT to shake up the financial sector and try to avoid the same catastrophic fiscal policies that the Clintons and Republicans rode with pom poms waving right into a global economic meltdown. I think he'd have about as much success as Trump would have putting up a giant fence around the country but that's where I stand.

I've often wondered why people despise Obama so much - besides just outright racism - when if you compare him to the current field of lackwits the prospect of begging him to stay 8 more years looks like our best bet. I'm sure he'd refuse with double barreled middle digits blazing and we're completely fucked through the floor.

You guys with kids are braver than I am. I have about 30-40 years left on this rock before I check out and I'm not really looking forward to them.

DPD.  From an outsider's point of view, I reckon Obama is by some distance the most well-thought of US president we've seen since... well, I'm struggling to think of a better one.  Abraham Lincoln?

By some. But he's easily the most hated President ever by a unfortunately-sizeable contingent.

When making my (admittedly not deeply considered decision) to plump for Lincoln, it did indeed cross my mind to mention FDR or Ike, as Chuck Dickens suggested.  Would those two be more or less universally admired within the States?  If not, was there ever anybody that was?  JFK, maybe?

If the esteemed collective Euro-conscience doesn't consider Bill Clinton one of the most effective Presidents of the last century, then fuckall.  For the record, I was not a huge fan of Clinton at the time (only voted for him once), but in retrospect he was pretty goddamn good.  I know a handful of thoughtful, intelligent conservatives who will concede that Clinton was a far better President than people were given him credit for in his time.  

Politically speaking, his presidency is very well thought of.  Like it or not, though, the whole Lewinsky thing tarnished an otherwise solid reputation.  Clinton is still the punchline to jokes over here.

His role in de-regulating the financial sector and the ensuing global economic meltdown is underrated. Republicans in congress were equally culpable so the right never goes after the Clintons for that. Therefore it continues to get brushed under the rug. There are those of us who never bought into his bullshit and those who hated him for the wrong reasons. He's a slippery fuck, that's for sure and one wonders what his legacy would look like if he weren't a dishonest rogue. Probably, he wouldn't have been President at all.

This is where I'm at with him.  The deregulation of Wall Street, the criminal system reforms that brought us mandatory sentencing and three strikes laws, and the continues imperialism in the Middle East and parts of Europe...none of these are insignificant and make me not like him as much as I should like him.  But, he was a centrist and that appeals to large swaths of the population, which is great, I suppose.  At least he didn't bust any unions or turn back any environmental protections.

But the Lewinski shit is just stupid.  The fucker got a hummer in the office.  He then lied about it.  Sort of.  He'd done much, much worse to the American people and to much of the world.

[Bort]

I used to consider myself a fiscal conservative, social liberal and now I support Sanders, which means I'm nothing like the man I used to be when I left Buttpuddle for bluer pastures. I mostly support him because he's not Hillary or Biden though. I think he would at least ATTEMPT to shake up the financial sector and try to avoid the same catastrophic fiscal policies that the Clintons and Republicans rode with pom poms waving right into a global economic meltdown. I think he'd have about as much success as Trump would have putting up a giant fence around the country but that's where I stand.

I've often wondered why people despise Obama so much - besides just outright racism - when if you compare him to the current field of lackwits the prospect of begging him to stay 8 more years looks like our best bet. I'm sure he'd refuse with double barreled middle digits blazing and we're completely fucked through the floor.

You guys with kids are braver than I am. I have about 30-40 years left on this rock before I check out and I'm not really looking forward to them.

DPD.  From an outsider's point of view, I reckon Obama is by some distance the most well-thought of US president we've seen since... well, I'm struggling to think of a better one.  Abraham Lincoln?

By some. But he's easily the most hated President ever by a unfortunately-sizeable contingent.

When making my (admittedly not deeply considered decision) to plump for Lincoln, it did indeed cross my mind to mention FDR or Ike, as Chuck Dickens suggested.  Would those two be more or less universally admired within the States?  If not, was there ever anybody that was?  JFK, maybe?

If the esteemed collective Euro-conscience doesn't consider Bill Clinton one of the most effective Presidents of the last century, then fuckall.  For the record, I was not a huge fan of Clinton at the time (only voted for him once), but in retrospect he was pretty goddamn good.  I know a handful of thoughtful, intelligent conservatives who will concede that Clinton was a far better President than people were given him credit for in his time.  

Politically speaking, his presidency is very well thought of.  Like it or not, though, the whole Lewinsky thing tarnished an otherwise solid reputation.  Clinton is still the punchline to jokes over here.

His role in de-regulating the financial sector and the ensuing global economic meltdown is underrated. Republicans in congress were equally culpable so the right never goes after the Clintons for that. Therefore it continues to get brushed under the rug. There are those of us who never bought into his bullshit and those who hated him for the wrong reasons. He's a slippery fuck, that's for sure and one wonders what his legacy would look like if he weren't a dishonest rogue. Probably, he wouldn't have been President at all.

This is where I'm at with him.  The deregulation of Wall Street, the criminal system reforms that brought us mandatory sentencing and three strikes laws, and the continues imperialism in the Middle East and parts of Europe...none of these are insignificant and make me not like him as much as I should like him.  But, he was a centrist and that appeals to large swaths of the population, which is great, I suppose.  At least he didn't bust any unions or turn back any environmental protections.

But the Lewinski shit is just stupid.  The fucker got a hummer in the office.  He then lied about it.  Sort of.  He'd done much, much worse to the American people and to much of the world.

This goes back to my longstanding frustration with all the Republicans who hated Clinton in the 90s for all the wrong reasons.

[SKO]

How much of the love Clinton gets is just becuase the economy was awesome largely for reasons unrelated to him? I mean, the computer boom happened during his presidency. The single greatest invention/economic transformation of the century or in human history or whatever just conveniently occurred during his time in office. Of course people remember the decade of incredibly low unemployment and unsustainable economic growth fondly.

[InternetApex]

How much of the love Clinton gets is just becuase the economy was awesome largely for reasons unrelated to him? I mean, the computer boom happened during his presidency. The single greatest invention/economic transformation of the century or in human history or whatever just conveniently occurred during his time in office. Of course people remember the decade of incredibly low unemployment and unsustainable economic growth fondly.

It was awesome on paper. We all learned soon enough how not awesome it was.

[SKO]

How much of the love Clinton gets is just becuase the economy was awesome largely for reasons unrelated to him? I mean, the computer boom happened during his presidency. The single greatest invention/economic transformation of the century or in human history or whatever just conveniently occurred during his time in office. Of course people remember the decade of incredibly low unemployment and unsustainable economic growth fondly.

It was awesome on paper. We all learned soon enough how not awesome it was.

Yeah, I mean most Americans don't really do a critical analysis of cause and effect. Pretty much just a "hey was I happy with my life when that guy was president? He must have done OK" kinda thing. The 90s were definitely a decade of artificial hope, economy-wise.

[Tonker]

By contrast, Obama has presided over the shittest eight years in living memory.

[InternetApex]

By contrast, Obama has presided over the shittest eight years in living memory.

My 95-year-old grandma would disagree. And then she would say a lot of not nice things about Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan... Shit, other than Truman or Ike I don't know who she rode for.

[SKO]

By contrast, Obama has presided over the shittest eight years in living memory.

My 95-year-old grandma would disagree. And then she would say a lot of not nice things about Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan... Shit, other than Truman or Ike I don't know who she rode for.

My Grandpa worshipped Harry Truman. Honestly that dude is one of the most underrated presidents in history.

[InternetApex]

By contrast, Obama has presided over the shittest eight years in living memory.

My 95-year-old grandma would disagree. And then she would say a lot of not nice things about Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan... Shit, other than Truman or Ike I don't know who she rode for.

My Grandpa worshipped Harry Truman. Honestly that dude is one of the most underrated presidents in history.

My Grandfather worked for him in his press office while he was president. He pretty much walked on water from what I hear.

[SKO]

By contrast, Obama has presided over the shittest eight years in living memory.

My 95-year-old grandma would disagree. And then she would say a lot of not nice things about Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan... Shit, other than Truman or Ike I don't know who she rode for.

My Grandpa worshipped Harry Truman. Honestly that dude is one of the most underrated presidents in history.

My Grandfather worked for him in his press office while he was president. He pretty much walked on water from what I hear.

Integrated the military, fought for Civil Rights despite being from Missouri and having to deal with the Dixiecrats in his own party, the Marshall Plan, Berlin Air Lift, stared down MacArthur and kept Korea from becoming a nuclear wasteland, then after he left office he refused to lobby or take money to be a corporate shill and ended up damn near broke and on welfare because of it.

Grandpa was a Korean War veteran and where many of them worshipped MacArthur and hated Truman, Grandpa always felt like Harry kept him and who knows how many others from being caught in a nuclear warzone, so that probably also contributed to Grandpa's favorable opinion of the man.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

If you haven't read David McCullough's biography of Truman you need to get on that.

[SKO]

If you haven't read David McCullough's biography of Truman you need to get on that.

I was unaware such a thing existed but I do always enjoy McCullough.

[InternetApex]

If you haven't read David McCullough's biography of Truman you need to get on that.

I was unaware such a thing existed but I do always enjoy McCullough.

Likewise. Soon as I'm done with The Autobiography of Malcolm X, I'll get to it. So in like 2018 or so.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

If you haven't read David McCullough's biography of Truman you need to get on that.

I was unaware such a thing existed but I do always enjoy McCullough.

It's great stuff.  Truman's presidency is proof that anyone can be president, since he was not a spectacularly exceptional individual growing up.  He was smart and hard-working, of course, but he did not come from money and was not an exceptional student.  In fact, one unique thing about heads of the American State in general is they are just as likely--if not more likely--to come from humble origins as they are to come from money.  There hasn't been a dominance of either--in fact, going back nearly 100 years, it seems we've had quite a few more Presidents come from relatively humble backgrounds than elite backgrounds, which in theory is at least a little reassuring.

Obama (humble)
W Bush (elite)
Clinton (humble)
HW Bush (elite)
Reagan (humble)
Carter (humble)
Ford (humble)
Nixon (humble)
LBJ (humble)
JFK (elite)
Eisenhower (humble)
Truman (humble)
FDR (elite)
Hoover (humble)

Going back to Hoover's election in 1928, 10 presidents came from simple backgrounds, while only 4 came from the established monied class--two Bushes, JFK and FDR--also proof that neither party has a dominance on the humble origin President.  The 19th century has plenty of examples as well--Lincoln, of course, but also Grant and Jackson to name a couple more.

This of course would never happen in Tonker's beloved England.  Suck it, UK boy*.



*How's that for some in-your-face jingoism?

[Tonker]

If you haven't read David McCullough's biography of Truman you need to get on that.

I was unaware such a thing existed but I do always enjoy McCullough.

It's great stuff.  Truman's presidency is proof that anyone can be president, since he was not a spectacularly exceptional individual growing up.  He was smart and hard-working, of course, but he did not come from money and was not an exceptional student.  In fact, one unique thing about heads of the American State in general is they are just as likely--if not more likely--to come from humble origins as they are to come from money.  There hasn't been a dominance of either--in fact, going back nearly 100 years, it seems we've had quite a few more Presidents come from relatively humble backgrounds than elite backgrounds, which in theory is at least a little reassuring.

Obama (humble)
W Bush (elite)
Clinton (humble)
HW Bush (elite)
Reagan (humble)
Carter (humble)
Ford (humble)
Nixon (humble)
LBJ (humble)
JFK (elite)
Eisenhower (humble)
Truman (humble)
FDR (elite)
Hoover (humble)

Going back to Hoover's election in 1928, 10 presidents came from simple backgrounds, while only 4 came from the established monied class--two Bushes, JFK and FDR--also proof that neither party has a dominance on the humble origin President.  The 19th century has plenty of examples as well--Lincoln, of course, but also Grant and Jackson to name a couple more.

This of course would never happen in Tonker's beloved England.  Suck it, UK boy*.



*How's that for some in-your-face jingoism?

Gordon Brown: father was a priest
Tony Blair: grandfather was a dockyard worker, father a University lecturer
John Major: father was a music hall performer
Maggie Thatcher: father was a grocer
Jim Callaghan: father was an NCO in the Royal Navy
Harold Wilson: father was a chemist
Ted Heath: father was a carpenter

So, Dave Cameron is an elitist cunt who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but every other PM in my lifetime has had solid working-class credentials.  Suck it, indeed.