Ask A Nationals Fan

[Chuck to Chuck]

I mean it's all dumb as shit, but if I am remembering correctly Barrett flailed away at Carlos,

No.  Z came in the dugout and questioned Barrett.  Barrett pointed to the field and Z went postal.

and he also cold-cocked Pierzynski the year before.

Yes.

[Canadouche]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

[SKO]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

[PenFoe]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/09/28/criticism-of-bryce-harper-in-papelbon-scuffle-is-off-base-and-out-of-date/

[InternetApex]

The Nationals are pretty fucked up. Their fans have got to be beyond consoling at this point. But if they fire Matt Williams, dump Papelbon and get their lineup back healthy, they're the favorites in the East next year unless the Mets do some serious offseason upgrading.

[Canadouche]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

[SKO]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

And by my definition the most valuable player is the player who is the best and also produces the most value (which we can now helpfully measure in WAR) for his team. Which in this case is Bryce Harper. The guy shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team blows, it should be even more impressive that he managed to almost singlehandedly keep the Nats in the race for half of the season.

[PenFoe]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

And by my definition the most valuable player is the player who is the best and also produces the most value (which we can now helpfully measure in WAR) for his team. Which in this case is Bryce Harper. The guy shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team blows, it should be even more impressive that he managed to almost singlehandedly keep the Nats in the race for half of the season.

So, is there any circumstance you can envision where the guy with the highest WAR doesn't automatically get the award?

[Slaky]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

And by my definition the most valuable player is the player who is the best and also produces the most value (which we can now helpfully measure in WAR) for his team. Which in this case is Bryce Harper. The guy shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team blows, it should be even more impressive that he managed to almost singlehandedly keep the Nats in the race for half of the season.

So, is there any circumstance you can envision where the guy with the highest WAR doesn't automatically get the award?

2 years ago? Or is that the joke.

[Canadouche]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

And by my definition the most valuable player is the player who is the best and also produces the most value (which we can now helpfully measure in WAR) for his team. Which in this case is Bryce Harper. The guy shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team blows, it should be even more impressive that he managed to almost singlehandedly keep the Nats in the race for half of the season.

So, is there any circumstance you can envision where the guy with the highest WAR doesn't automatically get the award?

If his name is Ryan Braun.

[SKO]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

And by my definition the most valuable player is the player who is the best and also produces the most value (which we can now helpfully measure in WAR) for his team. Which in this case is Bryce Harper. The guy shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team blows, it should be even more impressive that he managed to almost singlehandedly keep the Nats in the race for half of the season.

So, is there any circumstance you can envision where the guy with the highest WAR doesn't automatically get the award?

That I can envision? Sure. Lots of scenarios, because it happens all of the time. But in this case there should be no argument, it's Harper.

If you look over at the AL I can understand going with Donaldson or Trout, even if one will end up with a slight edge in WAR over the other. WAR isn't so perfect that it doesn't have a slight margin for error and I think you can make an argument for either player.

When it's a case of the only guy not named Barry Bonds to post an OPS + of 200 in this century vs a bunch of people who didn't do that, umm, no, go with that dude.

[PenFoe]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

And by my definition the most valuable player is the player who is the best and also produces the most value (which we can now helpfully measure in WAR) for his team. Which in this case is Bryce Harper. The guy shouldn't be punished because the rest of his team blows, it should be even more impressive that he managed to almost singlehandedly keep the Nats in the race for half of the season.

So, is there any circumstance you can envision where the guy with the highest WAR doesn't automatically get the award?

2 years ago? Or is that the joke.

No, real question. Wasn't making a joke.

[Bort]

I mean it's all dumb as shit, but if I am remembering correctly Barrett flailed away at Carlos,

No.  Z came in the dugout and questioned Barrett.  Barrett pointed to the field and Z went postal.

and he also cold-cocked Pierzynski the year before.

Yes.

I suppose I should go ahead and admit that I loved BOTH of those moments immensely, if only because I was an angry negative human during those years.

[SKO]

I mean it's all dumb as shit, but if I am remembering correctly Barrett flailed away at Carlos,

No.  Z came in the dugout and questioned Barrett.  Barrett pointed to the field and Z went postal.

and he also cold-cocked Pierzynski the year before.

Yes.

I suppose I should go ahead and admit that I loved BOTH of those moments immensely, if only because I was an angry negative human during those years.

Yeah, I don't think you are a bad person for finding that amusing. I should clarify I find the Harper-Papelbon thing amusing. Nobody was seriously hurt and other teams melting down is hysterical. I just think the aftermath shouldn't consist of people blaming Harper for it. I mean, Barrett was an asshat, and I can admit that Z went too far in attacking him while also admitting that it was fun to watch him go. I think even the most stalwart Carlos defenders here will admit the dude had issues.

[Quality Start Machine]

Honestly, the fact that a fight happened isn't what bothers me. I know that happens all of the time. It's that we can't even look at that fight and agree unanimously that the guy who choked out the other guy for no fucking reason was the one that was in the wrong.

Why can't they both be wrong?

If you and a neighbor are fighting about dog poop on your yard, and he ends up choking you about it, are you going to say it's your bad for arguing in the first place? Everyone has arguments, if you choke a guy who didn't attack you in any way, you're the dumbass who took it too far.

I mean to clarify I'm not saying it's wrong to not like Bryce Harper's attitude. If his arrogance turns you off or whatever, fine. I'm also not saying he didn't scream back at Papelbon and say "let's go" or whatever. It still doesn't make it right to choke someone. That's a line you shouldn't cross, and the bizarre barrier we have between what's acceptable in real life and in professional sports doesn't change that.

I absolutely agree with you. Papelbon seems like a real cancer. He had no right to choke Harper, even if Harper is an asshole.

It's partly because I want Cubs to win all the awards, unrealistic as that is, but I also partly think that the MVP should go to a playoff bound player who, hopefully, leads his team in more than just offensive categories. (By my own definition, Sammy Sosa should never have been MVP since he was so incredibly selfish.) I'm sure Harper remains the leading candidate, but his team's slide from contention can't help his chances.

The Cubs making the playoffs in 1998 was what won Sosa the MVP over McGwire.