2015 NLCS Thread: Chicago Cubs vs. New York Mets

[SKO]

I was at a wedding the night of Game 4 in 2003.  The groom--who was actually a closer friend of my brother than me (but with whom I played softball and drank much beer)-was a true, dyed-in-wool White Sox fan, as was his whole family.  His wife, conversely, was a Cubs fan, and members of her family--particularly her mom, I remember--were pretty hardcore. During the drinks portion of the evening, when the game was getting underway, one member of our group had the game on a transistor with an ear bud in and informed us of Ramirez' grand slam. High 5's all around.  During dinner, updates continued to be provided by the DJ ("AT THE END OF THE SEVENTH INNING, THE CUBS ARE WINNING *EIGHT* TO TWO!" and half the room erupts).   Finally, after the final out was recorded, the DJ not only got on the mic to announce the final score, but then played "Go Cubs Go", to which decidedly one-half of the room sang along.  What a party.

That was the peak, for me--the lasting image of the good times for all of that.  All of us at the table who knew the groom were just laughing our asses off that this Cub-hating Sox fan would have to hear that fucking song at his wedding.  His whole family's probably pissed at him.  Fucking awesome.

But even at that point, my brother and I reminded each other that as good as we fault it wasn't over.  They got to the just-win-once-in-3-potential-tries point vs. San Diego.

Later in the evening, when everyone was good and drunk, we approached the groom's father.  We weren't gloating or anything but he would've pre-emptively stopped us anyway because before either of us could say anything he resignedly stuck out his hand and sighed "congratulations".  But neither of us would accept, and offered up that nothing was won, that it only took 19 years to get to where we had been versus San Diego that we wouldn't let him trick us into a jinx yadda yadda yadda.  He wasn't buying it and frankly, deep down, neither were we.  We just weren't going to accept congratulations since of course nothing had been won.

Technically, the '03 Cubs went further than the '84 Cubs.  By not relinquishing the lead in their elimination game until there was 1 out in the 8th inning, as opposed to 1 out in the 7th like in '84, the 2003 Cubs crept a tiny bit closer than where they were in '84.  But none of the matters of course.  The situations were otherwise eerily similar and I really would hate to re-live any of it.

I don't know where any of this is going or what the point is.  I guess this is just my way of saying that I would really like a sweep or the Cubs in 5. Get over this fucking hump so I can breathe again.  Thanks.

As good as we fault it's never over for any of us, really.

[ChuckD]

I was at a wedding the night of Game 4 in 2003.  The groom--who was actually a closer friend of my brother than me (but with whom I played softball and drank much beer)-was a true, dyed-in-wool White Sox fan, as was his whole family.  His wife, conversely, was a Cubs fan, and members of her family--particularly her mom, I remember--were pretty hardcore. During the drinks portion of the evening, when the game was getting underway, one member of our group had the game on a transistor with an ear bud in and informed us of Ramirez' grand slam. High 5's all around.  During dinner, updates continued to be provided by the DJ ("AT THE END OF THE SEVENTH INNING, THE CUBS ARE WINNING *EIGHT* TO TWO!" and half the room erupts).   Finally, after the final out was recorded, the DJ not only got on the mic to announce the final score, but then played "Go Cubs Go", to which decidedly one-half of the room sang along.  What a party.

That was the peak, for me--the lasting image of the good times for all of that.  All of us at the table who knew the groom were just laughing our asses off that this Cub-hating Sox fan would have to hear that fucking song at his wedding.  His whole family's probably pissed at him.  Fucking awesome.

But even at that point, my brother and I reminded each other that as good as we fault it wasn't over.  They got to the just-win-once-in-3-potential-tries point vs. San Diego.

Later in the evening, when everyone was good and drunk, we approached the groom's father.  We weren't gloating or anything but he would've pre-emptively stopped us anyway because before either of us could say anything he resignedly stuck out his hand and sighed "congratulations".  But neither of us would accept, and offered up that nothing was won, that it only took 19 years to get to where we had been versus San Diego that we wouldn't let him trick us into a jinx yadda yadda yadda.  He wasn't buying it and frankly, deep down, neither were we.  We just weren't going to accept congratulations since of course nothing had been won.

Technically, the '03 Cubs went further than the '84 Cubs.  By not relinquishing the lead in their elimination game until there was 1 out in the 8th inning, as opposed to 1 out in the 7th like in '84, the 2003 Cubs crept a tiny bit closer than where they were in '84.  But none of the matters of course.  The situations were otherwise eerily similar and I really would hate to re-live any of it.

I don't know where any of this is going or what the point is.  I guess this is just my way of saying that I would really like a sweep or the Cubs in 5. Get over this fucking hump so I can breathe again.  Thanks.

As good as we fault it's never over for any of us, really.

I couldn't gigure ho to say it, but I younger the same way.

[Chuck to Chuck]

60/40 the Cubs go to the series.  And this team is better than 1984, 1989, and 2003 so sayeth the stats.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/this-is-the-cubs-best-chance-yet-to-break-their-curse/

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post. 

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

[SKO]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You even PANK'd the quote. You're such a gift. Never ever change.

[Quality Start Machine]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You know, when the Cubs win this whole fucking thing, whether this year or at some point in the very near future, I hope they bring guys like Durham and Gonzalez back so they get the appreciation they deserve instead of being remembered for an error at a horrible time.

[SKO]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You know, when the Cubs win this whole fucking thing, whether this year or at some point in the very near future, I hope they bring guys like Durham and Gonzalez back so they get the appreciation they deserve instead of being remembered for an error at a horrible time.

What fucking appreciation does Alex Gonzalez deserve? He was worth a whopping 2.1 fWAR in 2 1/2 seasons as a Cub and he botched a double play ball to send them to the fucking world series. I don't care if they win 10 titles, he deserves nothing but scorn forever.

Durham seems like a cool dude who deserved better, though.

[Slaky]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You know, when the Cubs win this whole fucking thing, whether this year or at some point in the very near future, I hope they bring guys like Durham and Gonzalez back so they get the appreciation they deserve instead of being remembered for an error at a horrible time.

I do think if/when the Cubs do pull this off (and I mean the whole thing), I'd like to think it's for all of the Cubs who've ever been. The shitty ones to the great ones. Every single Cub player and manager - praise some and goddamn the rest - but a World Series championship is for this team, those teams, and all of us.

When I saw a pic of Dave Otto (Elk Grove's finest) double fisting in the stands during game 4, I just thought - think of all the old Cubs who came close. They had to know what it would have meant to the city. 69, 84, 89, and so forth. Every player on all those teams had to know how this is a little different.

I wonder how many of those guys are watching somewhere, even with just a little bit of interest in seeing the Cubs go all the way. I'm sure they'll come crawling out of the woodwork as the Cubs get closer.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You know, when the Cubs win this whole fucking thing, whether this year or at some point in the very near future, I hope they bring guys like Durham and Gonzalez back so they get the appreciation they deserve instead of being remembered for an error at a horrible time.

What fucking appreciation does Alex Gonzalez deserve? He was worth a whopping 2.1 fWAR in 2 1/2 seasons as a Cub and he botched a double play ball to send them to the fucking world series. I don't care if they win 10 titles, he deserves nothing but scorn forever.

Durham seems like a cool dude who deserved better, though.

Durham was my favorite player who was a fine glove man.

Not a big Gonzalez fan but the guy did hit a handful of walkoffs in '03.  Considering that the Cubs clinched the division on the second-to-last day of the season, I'd say he contributed.

[ChuckD]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You know, when the Cubs win this whole fucking thing, whether this year or at some point in the very near future, I hope they bring guys like Durham and Gonzalez back so they get the appreciation they deserve instead of being remembered for an error at a horrible time.

What fucking appreciation does Alex Gonzalez deserve? He was worth a whopping 2.1 fWAR in 2 1/2 seasons as a Cub and he botched a double play ball to send them to the fucking world series. I don't care if they win 10 titles, he deserves nothing but scorn forever.

Durham seems like a cool dude who deserved better, though.

Well, he was worth 1.6 fWAR in 2003. Considering they edged out the Astros by a game to make the postseason, you could argue that he was the difference between not going to the postseason at all. He slugged .679 in the NLCS, too. I don't really care if they invite him back or not, but to say he "deserves nothing by scorn forever" because of one bad play is just ignorant.

But, please, continue with your caricaturesque meatball haterage shtick.

[ChuckD]

1 typo.  ONE fucking typo in that heartfelt post.  

I've never felt more like Leon Durham.

SQDPD

Actually I flat-out dropped the 3rd out in the 5th inning of what was to be Codys' first playoff victory ever, allowing the tying run to score, on a perfectly hard throw from Slaky from third base, after having a nearly flawless season playing 1st for several years.  My team (and myself) thankfully picked me up the next time we batted--and we won handily-- but I would have to say I never felt more like Leon Durham at that point.

You know, when the Cubs win this whole fucking thing, whether this year or at some point in the very near future, I hope they bring guys like Durham and Gonzalez back so they get the appreciation they deserve instead of being remembered for an error at a horrible time.

What fucking appreciation does Alex Gonzalez deserve? He was worth a whopping 2.1 fWAR in 2 1/2 seasons as a Cub and he botched a double play ball to send them to the fucking world series. I don't care if they win 10 titles, he deserves nothing but scorn forever.

Durham seems like a cool dude who deserved better, though.

Durham was my favorite player who was a fine glove man.

Not a big Gonzalez fan but the guy did hit a handful of walkoffs in '03.  Considering that the Cubs clinched the division on the second-to-last day of the season, I'd say he contributed.

Man, I forgot about that. I can't find a way to get a count of walkoffs, but he went 6 for 10 in extra innings that year with 3 HR.

[Brownie]

Here's a blast from the past, the 1985 Cubs season preview that WGN aired after re-broadcasting the division clincher. I remember watching it one blustery afternoon in February 1985.

Just speed it up to about 19:40 where Joe Goddard says the Cardinals probably had the worst offseason, and Steve Stone and Harry Caray emphatically agree. Fred Mitchell doesn't join in on the prediction of DOOM for the Cardinals, who won 105 games and made it to Game 7 of the World Series that season, but they all agree the Cubs were set up to be the best team in the National League. After all, their one big weak link was set to be replaced by Dallas Green's first big prospect, Shawon Dunston. They had the NL Cy Young Award winner, the NL MVP, a competent CF, an All-Star catcher, and players at first base and right field who were also in their prime.

It turns out tomorrow is promised to no one. It wasn't promised to the 1985 Bears, who thankfully got their one title. It wasn't promised to the '84 Cubs or the '89 Cubs, or the 2003 Cubs, who had the pieces for sustained success. It wasn't promised to the 2005 White Sox, who were built to be a one or two year wonder.

It wasn't promised to the Bulls of the 90s or the Hawks of today. How lucky they were to avoid major injury for six out of those eight seasons. There were plenty of teams good enough to beat the Bulls, including Apex's Knicks who had the Bulls on the ropes multiple times. The Hawks got three Stanley Cups, but despite having three franchise players (Toews, Kane and Keith), the road was never easy.

Maybe the Cubs are set up to dominate over the next five seasons. It doesn't mean they shouldn't seize this opportunity now. The Bears had the 49ers in the 1984 NFC Championship Game. You don't think Walter Payton died regretting they didn't win that game? Do you think Scottie Pippen wonders what might have been if he didn't have a migraine in 1990 or if Hue Hollins didn't take his Ref Like Shit Pills before Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 1994?  Do you think Jordan wishes he had a couple plays in that Orlando series back?

Do you think Mariano Rivera wishes he made better pitches in 2001 in Game 7?

Do you think the Blackhawks still feel a tinge (just a tinge, but a tinge nonetheless) of disappointment about losing to the Kings in overtime of Game 7 in 2014?

Just win the thing now. Forget curses, just don't let self-doubt and failure infiltrate this fun team and Maddon's culture. Win it this year, and as this team improves over the next 2-5 years we can talk about which Chicago dynasty was best: the Aughts Cubs, 40s Bears, 90s Bulls, the 2010s Hawks or the mid 2010s to early 2020s Cubs.

[InternetApex]

Here's a blast from the past, the 1985 Cubs season preview that WGN aired after re-broadcasting the division clincher. I remember watching it one blustery afternoon in February 1985.

Just speed it up to about 19:40 where Joe Goddard says the Cardinals probably had the worst offseason, and Steve Stone and Harry Caray emphatically agree. Fred Mitchell doesn't join in on the prediction of DOOM for the Cardinals, who won 105 games and made it to Game 7 of the World Series that season, but they all agree the Cubs were set up to be the best team in the National League. After all, their one big weak link was set to be replaced by Dallas Green's first big prospect, Shawon Dunston. They had the NL Cy Young Award winner, the NL MVP, a competent CF, an All-Star catcher, and players at first base and right field who were also in their prime.

It turns out tomorrow is promised to no one. It wasn't promised to the 1985 Bears, who thankfully got their one title. It wasn't promised to the '84 Cubs or the '89 Cubs, or the 2003 Cubs, who had the pieces for sustained success. It wasn't promised to the 2005 White Sox, who were built to be a one or two year wonder.

It wasn't promised to the Bulls of the 90s or the Hawks of today. How lucky they were to avoid major injury for six out of those eight seasons. There were plenty of teams good enough to beat the Bulls, including Apex's Knicks who had the Bulls on the ropes multiple times. The Hawks got three Stanley Cups, but despite having three franchise players (Toews, Kane and Keith), the road was never easy.

Maybe the Cubs are set up to dominate over the next five seasons. It doesn't mean they shouldn't seize this opportunity now. The Bears had the 49ers in the 1984 NFC Championship Game. You don't think Walter Payton died regretting they didn't win that game? Do you think Scottie Pippen wonders what might have been if he didn't have a migraine in 1990 or if Hue Hollins didn't take his Ref Like Shit Pills before Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 1994?  Do you think Jordan wishes he had a couple plays in that Orlando series back?

Do you think Mariano Rivera wishes he made better pitches in 2001 in Game 7?

Do you think the Blackhawks still feel a tinge (just a tinge, but a tinge nonetheless) of disappointment about losing to the Kings in overtime of Game 7 in 2014?

Just win the thing now. Forget curses, just don't let self-doubt and failure infiltrate this fun team and Maddon's culture. Win it this year, and as this team improves over the next 2-5 years we can talk about which Chicago dynasty was best: the Aughts Cubs, 40s Bears, 90s Bulls, the 2010s Hawks or the mid 2010s to early 2020s Cubs.

I heard Mariano say recently that his best wasn't good enough that day. BABIP and what not. He sleeps easy.

[flannj]

Here's a blast from the past, the 1985 Cubs season preview that WGN aired after re-broadcasting the division clincher. I remember watching it one blustery afternoon in February 1985.

Just speed it up to about 19:40 where Joe Goddard says the Cardinals probably had the worst offseason, and Steve Stone and Harry Caray emphatically agree. Fred Mitchell doesn't join in on the prediction of DOOM for the Cardinals, who won 105 games and made it to Game 7 of the World Series that season, but they all agree the Cubs were set up to be the best team in the National League. After all, their one big weak link was set to be replaced by Dallas Green's first big prospect, Shawon Dunston. They had the NL Cy Young Award winner, the NL MVP, a competent CF, an All-Star catcher, and players at first base and right field who were also in their prime.

It turns out tomorrow is promised to no one. It wasn't promised to the 1985 Bears, who thankfully got their one title. It wasn't promised to the '84 Cubs or the '89 Cubs, or the 2003 Cubs, who had the pieces for sustained success. It wasn't promised to the 2005 White Sox, who were built to be a one or two year wonder.

It wasn't promised to the Bulls of the 90s or the Hawks of today. How lucky they were to avoid major injury for six out of those eight seasons. There were plenty of teams good enough to beat the Bulls, including Apex's Knicks who had the Bulls on the ropes multiple times. The Hawks got three Stanley Cups, but despite having three franchise players (Toews, Kane and Keith), the road was never easy.

Maybe the Cubs are set up to dominate over the next five seasons. It doesn't mean they shouldn't seize this opportunity now. The Bears had the 49ers in the 1984 NFC Championship Game. You don't think Walter Payton died regretting they didn't win that game? Do you think Scottie Pippen wonders what might have been if he didn't have a migraine in 1990 or if Hue Hollins didn't take his Ref Like Shit Pills before Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 1994?  Do you think Jordan wishes he had a couple plays in that Orlando series back?

Do you think Mariano Rivera wishes he made better pitches in 2001 in Game 7?

Do you think the Blackhawks still feel a tinge (just a tinge, but a tinge nonetheless) of disappointment about losing to the Kings in overtime of Game 7 in 2014?

Just win the thing now. Forget curses, just don't let self-doubt and failure infiltrate this fun team and Maddon's culture. Win it this year, and as this team improves over the next 2-5 years we can talk about which Chicago dynasty was best: the Aughts Cubs, 40s Bears, 90s Bulls, the 2010s Hawks or the mid 2010s to early 2020s Cubs.

Although I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph I gotta say the rest of this post and the memories it brought back is depressing as hell.