2015 NLCS Thread: Chicago Cubs vs. New York Mets

[Eli]

Ok -- what if the Cubs had managed to trade for Cole Hamels? Assuming they'd have had to give up at least one useful player on the current roster, they arguably wouldn't have won more games (and might have even won less) during the regular season, but if he'd started Game 3, then the Cubs might not be in this horrible position.

That's what you were afraid of? I've traded basically every player on this roster for Cole Hamels at some point in the last year on here. I don't know that I meant any of it, but I typed it out loud.

[SKO]

Ok -- what if the Cubs had managed to trade for Cole Hamels? Assuming they'd have had to give up at least one useful player on the current roster, they arguably wouldn't have won more games (and might have even won less) during the regular season, but if he'd started Game 3, then the Cubs might not be in this horrible position.

That's what you were afraid of? I've traded basically every player on this roster for Cole Hamels at some point in the last year on here. I don't know that I meant any of it, but I typed it out loud.

I'm guessing Hamels wasn't going to be had for Baez, so it was probably either Schwarber, Russell, or Bryant that the Phillies wanted and I remain OK with them saying no on all fronts.

[Quality Start Machine]

I watched as Baez, Bryant, Soler and then Schwarber Codys'd a fucking playoff game into the toilet and clogged it with a shit-caked PANK helmet. I laid down on the floor in my apartment trying to cry but nothing came out.

Then I got on Twitter and saw all my friends dumping gallons of white-hot hate on anybody who suggested that this team full of rookies should get a back pat and an attaboy as we look forward to a bright and glorious future.

And I woke up in a world in which this team that brought me so much joy is on the brink of elimination.

And after all of that, I still say they're going to be damn good for a long time. Fuck the Nationals. Theo isn't hiring Matt Williams to piss out the fire these kids have burning for all to witness. Fuck any of you who want to rain on that parade yourselves once this probable loss settles in and the pain subsides.

Go Cubs Go.

I have no problem with anyone who thinks the Cubs have a bright future. I agree they do. I have a problem with anyone spouting the "year ahead of schedule!" garbage. They're not, and fuck, what about the Mets? It's not like the Dodgers or Cardinals or Giants doing this. It's the fucking Mets. They were good enough to make it to the NLCS and better by every metric than the team they drew in said series, and they're getting the shit kicked out of them. It sucks, and it was a golden opportunity, and they've probably let it slip away.

Again, I think it goes back to the worst part of Cubs twitter being the large number of Cubs bloggers who feel like they have to tell you how to fan. If losing a fucking national league championship series doesn't bother you, fine, don't tell me it shouldn't bother me.

Right or wrong, many/most of us point to what the Cubs did in the 2nd half as being the "real" version of the team. MLB team WAR ranks in the 2nd half:

Position players:   Mets 2nd, Cubs 3rd
Starting pitching : Cubs 1st, Mets 5th
Bullpen:              Cubs 4th, Mets 13th

They were both damn good teams in the 2nd half, and the bullpen spread isn't nearly as important as how close the position players and starting pitchers were. Especially when the Cubs Cy Young and MVP candidate - who contributed significantly to the above rankings - have not really been themselves in either the NLDS or NLCS.

One of the keys to the Mets' success has been that the starting pitching has been able to get deep enough into games to take their bullpen out of the equation, with the exception of two guys. I really thought when the Cubs made deGrom actually work in the first inning, we'd start seeing Collins with no choice but to start trotting those guys out.

[CT III]

I watched as Baez, Bryant, Soler and then Schwarber Codys'd a fucking playoff game into the toilet and clogged it with a shit-caked PANK helmet. I laid down on the floor in my apartment trying to cry but nothing came out.

Then I got on Twitter and saw all my friends dumping gallons of white-hot hate on anybody who suggested that this team full of rookies should get a back pat and an attaboy as we look forward to a bright and glorious future.

And I woke up in a world in which this team that brought me so much joy is on the brink of elimination.

And after all of that, I still say they're going to be damn good for a long time. Fuck the Nationals. Theo isn't hiring Matt Williams to piss out the fire these kids have burning for all to witness. Fuck any of you who want to rain on that parade yourselves once this probable loss settles in and the pain subsides.

Go Cubs Go.

I have no problem with anyone who thinks the Cubs have a bright future. I agree they do. I have a problem with anyone spouting the "year ahead of schedule!" garbage. They're not, and fuck, what about the Mets? It's not like the Dodgers or Cardinals or Giants doing this. It's the fucking Mets. They were good enough to make it to the NLCS and better by every metric than the team they drew in said series, and they're getting the shit kicked out of them. It sucks, and it was a golden opportunity, and they've probably let it slip away.

Again, I think it goes back to the worst part of Cubs twitter being the large number of Cubs bloggers who feel like they have to tell you how to fan. If losing a fucking national league championship series doesn't bother you, fine, don't tell me it shouldn't bother me.

Right or wrong, many/most of us point to what the Cubs did in the 2nd half as being the "real" version of the team. MLB team WAR ranks in the 2nd half:

Position players:   Mets 2nd, Cubs 3rd
Starting pitching : Cubs 1st, Mets 5th
Bullpen:              Cubs 4th, Mets 13th

They were both damn good teams in the 2nd half, and the bullpen spread isn't nearly as important as how close the position players and starting pitchers were. Especially when the Cubs Cy Young and MVP candidate - who contributed significantly to the above rankings - have not really been themselves in either the NLDS or NLCS.

One of the keys to the Mets' success has been that the starting pitching has been able to get deep enough into games to take their bullpen out of the equation, with the exception of two guys. I really thought when the Cubs made deGrom actually work in the first inning, we'd start seeing Collins with no choice but to start trotting those guys out.

The other key is that Mr. Dickbeard is putting up a goddamn 1.628 OPS in this series.  I mean, the metrics SKO sited are nice but they don't account for the white hot luck that results in a career slapdick hitting 1/10th his career output in home runs over the course of 2 weeks.

[SKO]

So yeah, fuck everything basically. We're good here.

[Slaky]

So yeah, fuck everything basically. We're good here.

So maybe now that everything is entirely and completely fucked...they turn it around.

[PenFoe]

Honest question--

Should Schwarber start behind the plate tonight?

If Joe continues to bat Bryant-Rizzo 3-4, then he's not going to pull Montero from catcher.

I don't understand this photoshop at all.

There's been some argument that it might've been wiser to move Bryant to 5th and find a hotter bat for the 3-spot. While Maddon has been impressive in his willingness to pull starting pitchers as soon as they start to flail, he hasn't don't anything surprising with the lineup this series.

I'm guessing that Maddon thinks that lineup construction (or, the difference between hitting Bryant 5th vs 3rd) is not nearly as important on winning baseball games as pulling a starter who turns into a pumpkin after a batting order has seen him twice in a game.  I think he's rather correct in this thinking.

Fowler CF
Soler RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Castro 2B
Schwarber LF
Baez SS
Hammel P
Ross C

[InternetApex]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

[SKO]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

[Chuck to Chuck]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

DON'T TELL ME HOW TO FEEL!!!!! - Al

[CT III]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

People are free to cope however they see fit.  However, I reserve the right to soundly mock anyone who breaks out the "TRADE BRYANT AND RIZZO DEY SUCK IN THE PLAYOFFS" shit that I've actually heard a few times in the Score today.

[Eli]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

You long ago surpassed me in terms of hating the "year ahead" stuff, but at least there's only a few weeks of it left. You won't have to worry about it next year. Everyone will have actual expectations and treat them like a normal MLB team.

I'm pretty sure they will, at least.

[InternetApex]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

Fuck that.

Current mood:

[Quality Start Machine]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

If the Cubs season ends at the hands of the Mets...

The 2009 Blackhawks, like it or not, is still applicable as fuck here.

And we won't look back on the 2015 Cubs sadly in years to come, but we'll remember it as the year that a bunch of young players all figured it all out with the guidance of the perfect guy that was brought in to get the most out of the team.

And in 6 years, we'll all have multiple World Series Champions hats and shirts, and there will be young guys putting their Hall of Fame credentials together, and their manager will get his plaque the second he hangs it up.

But if they want to alter the comparison by making some fucking history, that would be something. And I'd give shirtless hugs all around.

Even you, Oleg.

[CT III]

Look, anybody but the fucking Cardinals. The Cubs kicked their asses so that makes this better than any other Cubs season since 1945. It's the best I've ever had.

I'm going to miss it.

I think most everyone is agreed on this, and it definitely isn't going to be looked on with the bitterness of '03 or '08 (unless 2016 ends up with an underachieving team of assholes like 2004 and they never get back here), but I think there's nothing wrong with letting people be mad right now and not trying to talk everyone down with "YEAR AHEAD OF SCHEDULE" stuff.

If the Cubs season ends at the hands of the Mets...

The 2009 Blackhawks, like it or not, is still applicable as fuck here.

And we won't look back on the 2015 Cubs sadly in years to come, but we'll remember it as the year that a bunch of young players all figured it all out with the guidance of the perfect guy that was brought in to get the most out of the team.

And in 6 years, we'll all have multiple World Series Champions hats and shirts, and there will be young guys putting their Hall of Fame credentials together, and their manager will get his plaque the second he hangs it up.

But if they want to alter the comparison by making some fucking history, that would be something. And I'd give shirtless hugs all around.

Even you, Oleg.

*sets up lawn chair*

*opens beer*

*waits for exasperated responses*