2015 Cubs Offseason: Building a Winner Around David Ross

[SKO]

I need CT to rule immediately on PANK calling himself a "language" pedant.

You're unable to discern the distinction between misspellings/typographical errors and word definitions?   

My god, man, don't you work in a library?

I can discern the difference, but misspellings/typography fall under the blanket term of language so you calling yourself a "language pedant" is still funny to me.

I haven't worked in a library since my fifth or sixth college.

[Slaky]

I need CT to rule immediately on PANK calling himself a "language" pedant.

You're unable to discern the distinction between misspellings/typographical errors and word definitions?   

My god, man, don't you work in a library?

I can discern the difference, but misspellings/typography fall under the blanket term of language so you calling yourself a "language pedant" is still funny to me.

I haven't worked in a library since my fifth or sixth college.

Take it outside.

[SKO]

I need CT to rule immediately on PANK calling himself a "language" pedant.

You're unable to discern the distinction between misspellings/typographical errors and word definitions?   

My god, man, don't you work in a library?

I can discern the difference, but misspellings/typography fall under the blanket term of language so you calling yourself a "language pedant" is still funny to me.

I haven't worked in a library since my fifth or sixth college.

Take it outside.

I'm content to wait for CT's ruling. The Ancient Laws must be honored here.

[Quality Start Machine]

If he means best Cubs pitcher he's ever seen I don't blame him. It's a toss up between him and Prior, I guess, and I think Kurt like me is too young to really remember Maddux's first go round with them.

If he's talking best pitcher period I can't give Arrieta the nod over Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Prime Atlanta Maddux, and yes, Kershaw.

Maddux's first go around was amazing, as was Sutcliffe's 1984. It was a little hard to comprehend a pitcher that good wearing a Cub uniform.

I wish you younger guys could have seen Fergie or Reuschel.

[Chuck to Chuck]

If he means best Cubs pitcher he's ever seen I don't blame him. It's a toss up between him and Prior, I guess, and I think Kurt like me is too young to really remember Maddux's first go round with them.

If he's talking best pitcher period I can't give Arrieta the nod over Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Prime Atlanta Maddux, and yes, Kershaw.

Maddux's first go around was amazing, as was Sutcliffe's 1984. It was a little hard to comprehend a pitcher that good wearing a Cub uniform.

I wish you younger guys could have seen Fergie or Reuschel.

Rueschel was like a mirage. He was this big fat tub who just got people out.  20 wins on an 81 win team.

I was too young for Fergie's first go around. Still pretty good in 1982-1983, but not the same.  Still threw complete games and walked basically no one.  Fergie had 4 CGs in 1982. The Cubs team had 6 in 2015, 4 by Jake.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

If he means best Cubs pitcher he's ever seen I don't blame him. It's a toss up between him and Prior, I guess, and I think Kurt like me is too young to really remember Maddux's first go round with them.

If he's talking best pitcher period I can't give Arrieta the nod over Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Prime Atlanta Maddux, and yes, Kershaw.

Maddux's first go around was amazing, as was Sutcliffe's 1984. It was a little hard to comprehend a pitcher that good wearing a Cub uniform.

I wish you younger guys could have seen Fergie or Reuschel.

Rueschel was like a mirage. He was this big fat tub who just got people out.  20 wins on an 81 win team.

I was too young for Fergie's first go around. Still pretty good in 1982-1983, but not the same.  Still threw complete games and walked basically no one.  Fergie had 4 CGs in 1982. The Cubs team had 6 in 2015, 4 by Jake.

Rueschel may have been large but he was actually a pretty good athlete.

[SKO]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

[Chuck to Chuck]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

Natural selection. Since they weren't paid very much, the guys threw their arms out early.  The survivors could all throw 300 innings.  Jenkins made $369,000 with the Cubs.  Over 4 years.  He made $62,000 in 1970.

[SKO]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

Natural selection. Since they weren't paid very much, the guys threw their arms out early.  The survivors could all throw 300 innings.  Jenkins made $369,000 with the Cubs.  Over 4 years.  He made $62,000 in 1970.

Fair enough. We just don't remember or hear much about the guys who burned out quickly. I think Fidrych might be the most famous example from that era, and I suppose we all know how Koufax was done at 30.

[Quality Start Machine]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

I don't know if this mattered, but everyone used a full windup back then. Not sure if that meant more body velocity and less wear on the arm. Hell, it seemed like every pitcher on the Mets had a huge ass and they all drove their bodies toward the plate, with their knee hitting the dirt. Not a lot of sore arms on those fucking Mets teams...Gary Gentry was the only one that springs to mind.

[SKO]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

I don't know if this mattered, but everyone used a full windup back then. Not sure if that meant more body velocity and less wear on the arm. Hell, it seemed like every pitcher on the Mets had a huge ass and they all drove their bodies toward the plate, with their knee hitting the dirt. Not a lot of sore arms on those fucking Mets teams...Gary Gentry was the only one that springs to mind.

Jim Bouton is a good example and he talks about it a lot in his book. He averaged 260 innings at 24 and 25 and by 26 his fastball was completely gone, which is why he had to re-invent himself as a knuckleballer just to hang around the game for another few years. You wonder how many of those guys could have had 10 year careers as starters if they had the same kind of limitations as they do now.

[Chuck to Chuck]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

I don't know if this mattered, but everyone used a full windup back then. Not sure if that meant more body velocity and less wear on the arm. Hell, it seemed like every pitcher on the Mets had a huge ass and they all drove their bodies toward the plate, with their knee hitting the dirt. Not a lot of sore arms on those fucking Mets teams...Gary Gentry was the only one that springs to mind.

Jim Bouton is a good example and he talks about it a lot in his book. He averaged 260 innings at 24 and 25 and by 26 his fastball was completely gone, which is why he had to re-invent himself as a knuckleballer just to hang around the game for another few years. You wonder how many of those guys could have had 10 year careers as starters if they had the same kind of limitations as they do now.

Years ago, SI had an article about the guys with longevity all never hit 200 innings in a year at any level until after they turned 25. Interesting correlation.

[InternetApex]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

I don't know if this mattered, but everyone used a full windup back then. Not sure if that meant more body velocity and less wear on the arm. Hell, it seemed like every pitcher on the Mets had a huge ass and they all drove their bodies toward the plate, with their knee hitting the dirt. Not a lot of sore arms on those fucking Mets teams...Gary Gentry was the only one that springs to mind.

Jim Bouton is a good example and he talks about it a lot in his book. He averaged 260 innings at 24 and 25 and by 26 his fastball was completely gone, which is why he had to re-invent himself as a knuckleballer just to hang around the game for another few years. You wonder how many of those guys could have had 10 year careers as starters if they had the same kind of limitations as they do now.

Years ago, SI had an article about the guys with longevity all never hit 200 innings in a year at any level until after they turned 25. Interesting correlation.

Jim Kaat threw 200 and 269 in his age 22 and 23 seasons respectively. Which begs the question, what did you actually read?

[Canadouche]

The one thing that makes me feel very good about Arrieta is that he has a minimal number of innings on his arm for his age, and as a fitness freak he might stay healthy for a long time.

The one thing that worries me about Arrieta is that he had never put a heavy workload on his arm before this past year, and he threw a ton of innings en route to the most dominating second half in baseball history.

The other thing I wonder is if his out pitch puts a lot of strain on his elbow. It's been compared to the slurve that Kerry Wood used to throw before he contracted Tommy John Disease.

[Tonker]

I really wonder how the hell guys back in the 60s handled those workloads. Fergie Jenkins averaged 301 IP from age 24-32. I know they didn't throw as hard as guys now, but by most accounts Fergie threw 90+. I don't know how anyone's arm survived that.

I don't know if this mattered, but everyone used a full windup back then. Not sure if that meant more body velocity and less wear on the arm. Hell, it seemed like every pitcher on the Mets had a huge ass and they all drove their bodies toward the plate, with their knee hitting the dirt. Not a lot of sore arms on those fucking Mets teams...Gary Gentry was the only one that springs to mind.

Jim Bouton is a good example and he talks about it a lot in his book. He averaged 260 innings at 24 and 25 and by 26 his fastball was completely gone, which is why he had to re-invent himself as a knuckleballer just to hang around the game for another few years. You wonder how many of those guys could have had 10 year careers as starters if they had the same kind of limitations as they do now.

Years ago, SI had an article about the guys with longevity all never hit 200 innings in a year at any level until after they turned 25. Interesting correlation.

Greg Maddux age/innings counts:

22 - 249
23 - 238
24 - 237
25 - 263
26 - 268
27 - 267
...
42 - 194