The 2016 Cubs: SPLOOGE SPLOOGE SPLOOGE

[SKO]

This was predictable (and smart): [http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/cubs-brian-matusz-signs-minor-league-deal-with-cubs/]Cubs sign Matusz to minor league deal. [/url]

Career 27-42 record, and a 4.85 ERA.  

His career as a reliever: 3.47 ERA, 179-63 K:BB ratio. Lefties have hit just .211/.269/.358/.627 against him in his career. If he's healthy he could be a big upgrade as the LOOGY without them having to give up anything stupid for a guy like Miller.

I'd rather they just give up something stupid* and have Andrew Miller.

* This, obviously, shouldn't mean Baez or Schwarber, since that's well beyond stupid.

Agreed, I just don't know how much stock to put into Buster Olney's report that the Yankees basically aren't motivated to move him yet unless the return is that stupid. If we're talking Gleyber Torres or something, sign me up I guess.

They love Dan Vogelbach... Or at least I'd like to think they do

They have to love him more than they love Rob Refsnyder.

Actually they'd have to love him more than Greg Bird, their top first base prospect who put up an .871 OPS last year. I'm surprised you were unaware of this given your deep knowledge of the Yankee farm system and exactly what they are looking for in terms of their trade packages.

The same Greg Bird who is currently in pieces?

From an injury that he should be recovered from next year? Do you think the Yankees want to trade Andrew Miller for Vogelbach so they can make a run at the playoffs this year with Fat Danny? Do you not get how trading veterans for prospects is usually done with an eye toward the future? If you think the Yankees are just looking to shore up first base so they can contend they aren't trading Andrew Miller.

[Oleg]

I'm still trying to figure out what Rob Refsnyder has to do with any of this.

[SKO]

I'm still trying to figure out what Rob Refsnyder has to do with any of this.

Oleg, it's quite simple. The Yankees would never trade Miller for Almora because they have a bunch of old guys and an outfield prospect who can't hit, plus Almora is not on the FORK FIVE list of top Cubs prospects (except he is looking forward to seeing him replace the Top Ten in WAR Dexter Fowler next year). They would however consider Dan Vogelbach, because Rob Refsnyder is bad and is getting some starts at first right now because Teixeira and Bird are hurt, even though Bird should be back next year, which is when the Yankees would be trying to contend in any scenario where they would consider trading Andrew Miller this year, but I guess if they need an upgrade for their playoff run this year one of the best relievers in baseball for a prospect many scouts consider too awful to play even a passable first base in the majors is the move they gotta make.

Fork made his position very clear.

[Slaky]

This was predictable (and smart): [http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/cubs-brian-matusz-signs-minor-league-deal-with-cubs/]Cubs sign Matusz to minor league deal. [/url]

Career 27-42 record, and a 4.85 ERA. 

His career as a reliever: 3.47 ERA, 179-63 K:BB ratio. Lefties have hit just .211/.269/.358/.627 against him in his career. If he's healthy he could be a big upgrade as the LOOGY without them having to give up anything stupid for a guy like Miller.

I'd rather they just give up something stupid* and have Andrew Miller.

* This, obviously, shouldn't mean Baez or Schwarber, since that's well beyond stupid.

Contreras?
Torres?

I think we can stop discussing Contreras as a trade piece, he sure seems to be the catcher of the future, I don't think he's going anywhere.

Yeah, I basically just look at him as a major-league piece at this point since he'll probably be up this year.

I still wonder how that would work given what they've got. Montero still has value as a receiver even if his throwing and hitting seem broken. Ross has been great and is immovable as backup. TimFed can pound but having Contreras as a 3rd catcher seems nuts. When does Montero play? Does he just become an expensive TimFed?

[SKO]

This was predictable (and smart): [http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/cubs-brian-matusz-signs-minor-league-deal-with-cubs/]Cubs sign Matusz to minor league deal. [/url]

Career 27-42 record, and a 4.85 ERA. 

His career as a reliever: 3.47 ERA, 179-63 K:BB ratio. Lefties have hit just .211/.269/.358/.627 against him in his career. If he's healthy he could be a big upgrade as the LOOGY without them having to give up anything stupid for a guy like Miller.

I'd rather they just give up something stupid* and have Andrew Miller.

* This, obviously, shouldn't mean Baez or Schwarber, since that's well beyond stupid.

Contreras?
Torres?

I think we can stop discussing Contreras as a trade piece, he sure seems to be the catcher of the future, I don't think he's going anywhere.

Yeah, I basically just look at him as a major-league piece at this point since he'll probably be up this year.

I still wonder how that would work given what they've got. Montero still has value as a receiver even if his throwing and hitting seem broken. Ross has been great and is immovable as backup. TimFed can pound but having Contreras as a 3rd catcher seems nuts. When does Montero play? Does he just become an expensive TimFed?

My guess would be Grandpa would go back to catching Lester, Montero and Contreras split the other four starts. Ross hasn't hit much of late and has admitted that playing so many games this year has been kinda hard on him. I don't think he can keep getting 3 of every 5 starts anyway.

[Quality Start Machine]

I'm still trying to figure out what Rob Refsnyder has to do with any of this.

Oleg, it's quite simple. The Yankees would never trade Miller for Almora because they have a bunch of old guys and an outfield prospect who can't hit, plus Almora is not on the FORK FIVE list of top Cubs prospects (except he is looking forward to seeing him replace the Top Ten in WAR Dexter Fowler next year). They would however consider Dan Vogelbach, because Rob Refsnyder is bad and is getting some starts at first right now because Teixeira and Bird are hurt, even though Bird should be back next year, which is when the Yankees would be trying to contend in any scenario where they would consider trading Andrew Miller this year, but I guess if they need an upgrade for their playoff run this year one of the best relievers in baseball for a prospect many scouts consider too awful to play even a passable first base in the majors is the move they gotta make.

Fork made his position very clear.

Or...

Teixiera is a free agent after this season, and A-Rod has said next year will be his last. So they might be amenable to taking a LH bat that can also play 1B that is currently sporting a .963 OPS in AAA. And he's somebody the Cubs would be willing to part with, since they've got their first baseman for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, if they're going to move a lefty pitcher that still has a couple years under control, it would probably take multiple guys from the Cubs' system.

And I'm pretty certain that even if Fowler stays among WAR leaders, he's opting out of his deal.

[SKO]

I'm still trying to figure out what Rob Refsnyder has to do with any of this.

Oleg, it's quite simple. The Yankees would never trade Miller for Almora because they have a bunch of old guys and an outfield prospect who can't hit, plus Almora is not on the FORK FIVE list of top Cubs prospects (except he is looking forward to seeing him replace the Top Ten in WAR Dexter Fowler next year). They would however consider Dan Vogelbach, because Rob Refsnyder is bad and is getting some starts at first right now because Teixeira and Bird are hurt, even though Bird should be back next year, which is when the Yankees would be trying to contend in any scenario where they would consider trading Andrew Miller this year, but I guess if they need an upgrade for their playoff run this year one of the best relievers in baseball for a prospect many scouts consider too awful to play even a passable first base in the majors is the move they gotta make.

Fork made his position very clear.

Or...

Teixiera is a free agent after this season, and A-Rod has said next year will be his last. So they might be amenable to taking a LH bat that can also play 1B that is currently sporting a .963 OPS in AAA. And he's somebody the Cubs would be willing to part with, since they've got their first baseman for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, if they're going to move a lefty pitcher that still has a couple years under control, it would probably take multiple guys from the Cubs' system.

And I'm pretty certain that even if Fowler stays among WAR leaders, he's opting out of his deal.

My point wasn't that the Yankees might not want Vogelbach, my point was that by ForkLogic they wouldn't want Vogelbach because he's blocked at DH and first by A-Rod and Bird, since you said they wouldn't want Almora since they have a bunch of old ass dudes and a guy not hitting shit at AAA blocking the outfield.

[ChuckD]

I'm still trying to figure out what Rob Refsnyder has to do with any of this.

Oleg, it's quite simple. The Yankees would never trade Miller for Almora because they have a bunch of old guys and an outfield prospect who can't hit, plus Almora is not on the FORK FIVE list of top Cubs prospects (except he is looking forward to seeing him replace the Top Ten in WAR Dexter Fowler next year). They would however consider Dan Vogelbach, because Rob Refsnyder is bad and is getting some starts at first right now because Teixeira and Bird are hurt, even though Bird should be back next year, which is when the Yankees would be trying to contend in any scenario where they would consider trading Andrew Miller this year, but I guess if they need an upgrade for their playoff run this year one of the best relievers in baseball for a prospect many scouts consider too awful to play even a passable first base in the majors is the move they gotta make.

Fork made his position very clear.

Or...

Teixiera is a free agent after this season, and A-Rod has said next year will be his last. So they might be amenable to taking a LH bat that can also play 1B that is currently sporting a .963 OPS in AAA. And he's somebody the Cubs would be willing to part with, since they've got their first baseman for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, if they're going to move a lefty pitcher that still has a couple years under control, it would probably take multiple guys from the Cubs' system.

And I'm pretty certain that even if Fowler stays among WAR leaders, he's opting out of his deal.

My point wasn't that the Yankees might not want Vogelbach, my point was that by ForkLogic they wouldn't want Vogelbach because he's blocked at DH and first by A-Rod and Bird, since you said they wouldn't want Almora since they have a bunch of old ass dudes and a guy not hitting shit at AAA blocking the outfield.

*Sits down with a bowl of delicious airpopped popcorn*

[Quality Start Machine]

I'm still trying to figure out what Rob Refsnyder has to do with any of this.

Oleg, it's quite simple. The Yankees would never trade Miller for Almora because they have a bunch of old guys and an outfield prospect who can't hit, plus Almora is not on the FORK FIVE list of top Cubs prospects (except he is looking forward to seeing him replace the Top Ten in WAR Dexter Fowler next year). They would however consider Dan Vogelbach, because Rob Refsnyder is bad and is getting some starts at first right now because Teixeira and Bird are hurt, even though Bird should be back next year, which is when the Yankees would be trying to contend in any scenario where they would consider trading Andrew Miller this year, but I guess if they need an upgrade for their playoff run this year one of the best relievers in baseball for a prospect many scouts consider too awful to play even a passable first base in the majors is the move they gotta make.

Fork made his position very clear.

Or...

Teixiera is a free agent after this season, and A-Rod has said next year will be his last. So they might be amenable to taking a LH bat that can also play 1B that is currently sporting a .963 OPS in AAA. And he's somebody the Cubs would be willing to part with, since they've got their first baseman for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, if they're going to move a lefty pitcher that still has a couple years under control, it would probably take multiple guys from the Cubs' system.

And I'm pretty certain that even if Fowler stays among WAR leaders, he's opting out of his deal.

My point wasn't that the Yankees might not want Vogelbach, my point was that by ForkLogic they wouldn't want Vogelbach because he's blocked at DH and first by A-Rod and Bird, since you said they wouldn't want Almora since they have a bunch of old ass dudes and a guy not hitting shit at AAA blocking the outfield.

*Sits down with a bowl of delicious airpopped popcorn*

Fucking Kraut.

[Saul Goodman]

I'd probably listen to a SKO and Fork Debate General Managing podcast.

Once, twice maybe.

[Bort]

I'd probably listen to a SKO and Fork Debate General Managing podcast.

Once, twice maybe.

Let's just stick to the written word. It's easier to skim.

[PenFoe]

If you ever wanted to interrogate information out of me, just force me to read the last few pages of this thread over and over and I'll give up everything important in this world.

[Eli]

If you ever wanted to interrogate information out of me, just force me to read more than five words the last few pages of this thread over and over and I'll give up everything important in this world.

[SKO]

The 9th inning defensive alignment of Ross/Rizzo/Baez/Russell/Bryant with Almora/Fowler/Heyward in the OF is probably the single best defense the Cubs have fielded in my lifetime.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

The 9th inning defensive alignment of Ross/Rizzo/Baez/Russell/Bryant with Almora/Fowler/Heyward in the OF is probably the single best defense the Cubs have fielded in my lifetime.

I was hoping that Zobrist was taken out when Maddon "triple"-switched Almora & Rondon into the game.  I feared that he was going to just take Baez out because he wouldn't want to offend Zobrist, because Baez did make the last out in the 8th (even though it was right after Zobrist) and he had a shitty at-bat anyway after Zobrist doubled--in spite of the fact that the objectively intuitive move would be exactly what Maddon did and what I was hoping he'd do.  

Nice to have a manager who can put your fears to ease.