John Lackey's Blazing Horse House Inferno

[CT III]

Fuck you, Lackey

I've been told you cant get mad at Lackey because he's been solid for 1 of the 5 months of baseball played this season

As the closet thing to a Lackey supporter--and I seriously hate the guy as much as y'all--I think this is some serious Wounded SKO hyperbole.  The nicest thing I've said about Lackey is that...well I don't think I've said anything nice about him at all come to think of it, nor have I told anyone to not get mad at him.  I have, however, pointed out that all of the bitching and moaning and postulating about his imminent departure (mind you, this is not just you, SKO, but a sizeable and noteworthy lot on Twitter) is pointless as much as it is incorrect.  For a #5 starter on a team with contention hopes, Lackey is about as good as you should expect to get and mindlessly typing FUCK YOU to him on Twitter every single start will do absolutely nothing to change that fact.  You don't have to like it but I do recommend accepting it.  

And that was my stance in early July--that the guy's getting paid for another 15 or so starts, and hopefully he can eat innings and not hurt them too badly.  Even with that low bar, that's not exactly unusual for a #5 starter (hello Dan Haren!  Or do you prefer Sean Estes?) And while I do find amusement in the petulant bumping of this thread because he had his first shitty start in the 5 weeks since the All-Star Break, the fact of the matter is that until Jake's last 2 starts had probably allowed Jake to overtake Lackey, the latter had been the best starting pitcher on a team since that point--for a team that desperately needed to establish stability out of their rotation.  

In fact, SKO, you should be happy as fuck that Lackey shit the tub last night as opposed to being angry at him because he almost lost a game to the fucking Reds (that the Cubs won the game is icing on the cake--I've told anyone that cares to listen that they're going to win 60% of the rest of the schedule just by getting out of bed).  Fact is, you don't want Lackey to be too good, as he'll begin to garner sympathy for a playoff roster spot.  Since that is already starting to happen, and since no rational person wants to see it, a performance like last night is sure to counter this effect.

I was referring to Sahadev.

Well without reading the tweets put me on #teamsahadev

My initial tweet was how "this is shaping up to be one of those games where I'm told I have to give credit to Lackey for grinding out a 6 inning, 5 ER start" (I was wrong as it was 6 ER in 5 IP), Sahadev said "oh stop, he's been fine in the second half". I pointed out that his fine second half (where he's managed a whopping 3 quality starts) had lowered his ERA to 4.77 (now 4.90), so I guess I'm just wondering how many cookies pitching adequately as a 5th starter for a month and a half is worth.

I'm told that he's not much worse than average but his ERA+ is 89, which is well below average, and given that he's surrendered 31 fucking bombs it's pretty clear he's been fairly lucky, since his FIP is 5.58. He's also walking batters at a higher rate than he has since the year his elbow exploded. He sucks ass, I will hear no other opinions on the matter.

The entirety of this conversation is too many words about John Lackey and I'm sure as hell not going to read any of it.

Let's get this straight: John Lackey is bad and he sucks and he's an asshole.  Now stick to the topic or I'll close down the thread.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Fuck you, Lackey

I've been told you cant get mad at Lackey because he's been solid for 1 of the 5 months of baseball played this season

As the closet thing to a Lackey supporter--and I seriously hate the guy as much as y'all--I think this is some serious Wounded SKO hyperbole.  The nicest thing I've said about Lackey is that...well I don't think I've said anything nice about him at all come to think of it, nor have I told anyone to not get mad at him.  I have, however, pointed out that all of the bitching and moaning and postulating about his imminent departure (mind you, this is not just you, SKO, but a sizeable and noteworthy lot on Twitter) is pointless as much as it is incorrect.  For a #5 starter on a team with contention hopes, Lackey is about as good as you should expect to get and mindlessly typing FUCK YOU to him on Twitter every single start will do absolutely nothing to change that fact.  You don't have to like it but I do recommend accepting it.  

And that was my stance in early July--that the guy's getting paid for another 15 or so starts, and hopefully he can eat innings and not hurt them too badly.  Even with that low bar, that's not exactly unusual for a #5 starter (hello Dan Haren!  Or do you prefer Sean Estes?) And while I do find amusement in the petulant bumping of this thread because he had his first shitty start in the 5 weeks since the All-Star Break, the fact of the matter is that until Jake's last 2 starts had probably allowed Jake to overtake Lackey, the latter had been the best starting pitcher on a team since that point--for a team that desperately needed to establish stability out of their rotation.  

In fact, SKO, you should be happy as fuck that Lackey shit the tub last night as opposed to being angry at him because he almost lost a game to the fucking Reds (that the Cubs won the game is icing on the cake--I've told anyone that cares to listen that they're going to win 60% of the rest of the schedule just by getting out of bed).  Fact is, you don't want Lackey to be too good, as he'll begin to garner sympathy for a playoff roster spot.  Since that is already starting to happen, and since no rational person wants to see it, a performance like last night is sure to counter this effect.

I was referring to Sahadev.

Well without reading the tweets put me on #teamsahadev

My initial tweet was how "this is shaping up to be one of those games where I'm told I have to give credit to Lackey for grinding out a 6 inning, 5 ER start" (I was wrong as it was 6 ER in 5 IP), Sahadev said "oh stop, he's been fine in the second half". I pointed out that his fine second half (where he's managed a whopping 3 quality starts) had lowered his ERA to 4.77 (now 4.90), so I guess I'm just wondering how many cookies pitching adequately as a 5th starter for a month and a half is worth.

I'm told that he's not much worse than average but his ERA+ is 89, which is well below average, and given that he's surrendered 31 fucking bombs it's pretty clear he's been fairly lucky, since his FIP is 5.58. He's also walking batters at a higher rate than he has since the year his elbow exploded. He sucks ass, I will hear no other opinions on the matter.

I replied to your tweet come to think of it and was actually smiling when he eventually did give up exactly 6 in 5 innings.  You should hit the track today.  

Nevertheless, this doesn't make your reaction--and all of your countless sarcastic early-game bellyaching reactions that you've taken all year to perfect-- any less disproportionate to the situation and if he's anything like me, Sahadev probably just got sick of it and chose last night to let you know to maybe calm the fuck down.  I'm fairly confident that Lackey rates well for a 5th starter on balance--for a contending team or otherwise--and it's tiring to see someone go so far out of their way to not dare think anything positive about that asshole.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

Fuck you, Lackey

I've been told you cant get mad at Lackey because he's been solid for 1 of the 5 months of baseball played this season

As the closet thing to a Lackey supporter--and I seriously hate the guy as much as y'all--I think this is some serious Wounded SKO hyperbole.  The nicest thing I've said about Lackey is that...well I don't think I've said anything nice about him at all come to think of it, nor have I told anyone to not get mad at him.  I have, however, pointed out that all of the bitching and moaning and postulating about his imminent departure (mind you, this is not just you, SKO, but a sizeable and noteworthy lot on Twitter) is pointless as much as it is incorrect.  For a #5 starter on a team with contention hopes, Lackey is about as good as you should expect to get and mindlessly typing FUCK YOU to him on Twitter every single start will do absolutely nothing to change that fact.  You don't have to like it but I do recommend accepting it.  

And that was my stance in early July--that the guy's getting paid for another 15 or so starts, and hopefully he can eat innings and not hurt them too badly.  Even with that low bar, that's not exactly unusual for a #5 starter (hello Dan Haren!  Or do you prefer Sean Estes?) And while I do find amusement in the petulant bumping of this thread because he had his first shitty start in the 5 weeks since the All-Star Break, the fact of the matter is that until Jake's last 2 starts had probably allowed Jake to overtake Lackey, the latter had been the best starting pitcher on a team since that point--for a team that desperately needed to establish stability out of their rotation.  

In fact, SKO, you should be happy as fuck that Lackey shit the tub last night as opposed to being angry at him because he almost lost a game to the fucking Reds (that the Cubs won the game is icing on the cake--I've told anyone that cares to listen that they're going to win 60% of the rest of the schedule just by getting out of bed).  Fact is, you don't want Lackey to be too good, as he'll begin to garner sympathy for a playoff roster spot.  Since that is already starting to happen, and since no rational person wants to see it, a performance like last night is sure to counter this effect.

I was referring to Sahadev.

Well without reading the tweets put me on #teamsahadev

My initial tweet was how "this is shaping up to be one of those games where I'm told I have to give credit to Lackey for grinding out a 6 inning, 5 ER start" (I was wrong as it was 6 ER in 5 IP), Sahadev said "oh stop, he's been fine in the second half". I pointed out that his fine second half (where he's managed a whopping 3 quality starts) had lowered his ERA to 4.77 (now 4.90), so I guess I'm just wondering how many cookies pitching adequately as a 5th starter for a month and a half is worth.

I'm told that he's not much worse than average but his ERA+ is 89, which is well below average, and given that he's surrendered 31 fucking bombs it's pretty clear he's been fairly lucky, since his FIP is 5.58. He's also walking batters at a higher rate than he has since the year his elbow exploded. He sucks ass, I will hear no other opinions on the matter.

The entirety of this conversation is too many words about John Lackey and I'm sure as hell not going to read any of it.

Let's get this straight: John Lackey is bad and he sucks and he's an asshole.  Now stick to the topic or I'll close down the thread.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

* gives finger to MOD *

[SKO]

I replied to your tweet come to think of it and was actually smiling when he eventually did give up exactly 6 in 5 innings.  You should hit the track today.  

Nevertheless, this doesn't make your reaction--and all of your countless sarcastic early-game bellyaching reactions that you've taken all year to perfect-- any less disproportionate to the situation and if he's anything like me, Sahadev probably just got sick of it and chose last night to let you know to maybe calm the fuck down.  I'm fairly confident that Lackey rates well for a 5th starter on balance--for a contending team or otherwise--and it's tiring to see someone go so far out of their way to not dare think anything positive about that asshole.

I do not have to go out of my way at all to not think anything positive about a guy with an ERA near 5 that leads the league in homers allowed, and that doesn't even factor in what a heaping turd of a human being he is. The people going out of their way are the ones going "well, on balance, particularly whence factoring in the previous month, and ignoring the entire first half, for some reason, and also ignoring the fact that his peripherals are even worse than his actual results, which are bad, if you compare him to other 5th starters, contenders or otherwise, why, I daresay perhaps you're overreacting to his badness, which is perhaps merely average badness"

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

I replied to your tweet come to think of it and was actually smiling when he eventually did give up exactly 6 in 5 innings.  You should hit the track today.  

Nevertheless, this doesn't make your reaction--and all of your countless sarcastic early-game bellyaching reactions that you've taken all year to perfect-- any less disproportionate to the situation and if he's anything like me, Sahadev probably just got sick of it and chose last night to let you know to maybe calm the fuck down.  I'm fairly confident that Lackey rates well for a 5th starter on balance--for a contending team or otherwise--and it's tiring to see someone go so far out of their way to not dare think anything positive about that asshole.

I do not have to go out of my way at all to not think anything positive about a guy with an ERA near 5 that leads the league in homers allowed, and that doesn't even factor in what a heaping turd of a human being he is. The people going out of their way are the ones going "well, on balance, particularly whence factoring in the previous month, and ignoring the entire first half, for some reason, and also ignoring the fact that his peripherals are even worse than his actual results, which are bad, if you compare him to other 5th starters, contenders or otherwise, why, I daresay perhaps you're overreacting to his badness, which is perhaps merely average badness"

No I'm not you are.

[World's #1 Astros Fan]

DPD...seriously, though, aside from Jason Hammel in 2016, tell me any #5 starters on any playoff teams for whom you wouldn't want to ignore half their season.  I'll wait.

[Tonker]

Thirty-fucking-one home runs.  I assumed that must be an exaggeration, but it's not: Lackey has actually given up thirty-one home runs.  Holy fucking Mother of God.

[SKO]

DPD...seriously, though, aside from Jason Hammel in 2016, tell me any #5 starters on any playoff teams for whom you wouldn't want to ignore half their season.  I'll wait.

Well the Dodgers have had 16 starts or more from 6 dudes and the highest ERA in the pack is Kenta Maeda's 3.88.

Edwin Jackson is somehow performing better in both ERA and FIP than Lackey, albeit in a small sample size.

The Diamondbacks 5th starter is Zack Godley, who has a 3.13 ERA. If you took their worst starter ERA you get Patrick Corbin's 4.09.

I'm not sure who would count as Colorado's 5th starter but they have 6 dudes with at least 13 starts, all of whom rank well ahead of Lackey in ERA+, which accounts for their home games at Pinball Stadium (and even then only two of them have actual ERAs worse than John's, but have better FIPS, and again, adjusted for park are still better).

Shit even the Brewers have 5 guys who've made at least 9 starts and have a better ERA than Lackey.

The Astros have 5 starters with ERAs/ERA+/FIP better than our boy Lackey.

Boston lost David Price and had to turn to the corpse of Doug Fister, so he's really their 6th starter, and yet he has, yes, you guessed it, a better ERA, ERA+ and FIP than Lackey.

Again, not sure which Yankees starter even counts as their 5th starter but all with better ERAs and FIPs than Lackey, despite being in the AL and largely considered as the weakest rotation of any major contender.

This also ignores that Lackey, as the roster was designed this year, was not the 5th starter. Brett Anderson was, then Eddie Butler. Lackey was the 4th guy, and he sucked ass. His "good" stretch coincided with the acquisition of Quintana which finally did bump him into that 5th spot, but for most of the year (and maybe now, depending on how quickly Lester can get back and get into shape) he's had a designated spot in any NLDS rotation, in which case he is woefully inadequate compared to the starting staffs of basically every other playoff contender.

But sure he's probably a better 5th starter than whatever hump Miami and a bunch of other dead ass teams are throwing out there. Lower the bar however much you want to justify your love of this horse-faced bumpkin.

[Quality Start Machine]

Thirty-fucking-one home runs.  I assumed that must be an exaggeration, but it's not: Lackey has actually given up thirty-one home runs.  Holy fucking Mother of God.

Johnny Mothafuckin Longball.

[Saul Goodman]

All this is moot once Justin "Kate Upton" Verlander bumps Lackey from the rotation. It's gonna hai.

[SKO]

Fuck this guy forever

[Armchair_QB]

Fuck this guy forever

[Tonker]

Yep.  I was a Lackey apologist but his you can only ignore what a prick he is if he's pitching well, and those days are seemingly gone for ever.  He's done and should the Cubs get to the postseason, he needs to be watching it on telly with the rest of us.

[SKO]

Yep.  I was a Lackey apologist but his you can only ignore what a prick he is if he's pitching well, and those days are seemingly gone for ever.  He's done and should the Cubs get to the postseason, he needs to be watching it on telly with the rest of us.

I think what's bizarre is this notion that he's a 5th starter and therefore the team can just chalk up his games to a "well what're you gonna do" and shrug it off. Fuck that. They have a 2 game lead in August. When Lester comes back they could easily replace Lackey with Montgomery. We're far too late in the game for "if everyone else steps up, the 5th starter shouldn't matter." With a 2 game lead, it all matters. Get every possible advantage you can and seize it (like maybe also benching Heyward, too).

[Quality Start Machine]

All the Cubs needed out of him was one inning where he didn't completely shit himself. This was something he proved himself unable to provide.

As my beltless son said, keep Montgomery in the rotation, stick Lackey in the pen.